Author Topic: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues  (Read 18394 times)

TTG4

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2014, 01:27:17 AM »
I was using hyperbole. But the facts remain that several people HAVE been shot and fatally wounded by police, that they have been predominantly non-white, and that this keeps happening. If police are going to use rapid responses when they feel threatened, they should be carrying tasers not firearms for that purpose.

This.

The police have to have a way to defend themselves, but in my opinion they're too quick to jump to lethal force.

comrade_general

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2014, 01:29:16 AM »
Totally agree on police, but not about "poor black citizens". They will always remain "poor black citizens" if they are continuously treated and act as such. Their lifestyles often lead to a higher propensity to commit crimes. It's not bigotry it's just fact. Over to you, Chuck:
http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/25/charles-barkley-unintelligent-blacks-brainwashed-to-keep-successful-black-men-down-video/

Edit: Dammit, I told myself not to get involved in one of these arguments. Whatever gets said next I'm not going to reply to it. :P
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 01:35:22 AM by comrade_general »

Jubal

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2014, 01:38:47 AM »
How they act shouldn't lead to a different perception on whether their life has inherent value. This isn't just a socioeconomic question - the fact is that black people tend to be more likely to be punished more harshly (or indeed at all) for the same crimes as white people. Nobody is disputing here that poor black neighbourhoods have high crime rates - but that doesn't mean that black lives should be considered less valuable.

And hey, if the rest of the world started treating them like human beings, maybe that might start making a difference - when you grow up feeling like the cops could hit  you, beat you or kill you for pretty much no reason, that's rather a disincentive to be positively engaged in your society. (To take another prominent case that emphasises the "no reason", a guy was killed in Utah in September. He was cosplaying and carrying a sword, and the cops shot him six times in the back. No charges were filed for this pretty much inexplicable murder.)
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comrade_general

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2014, 10:17:00 PM »
Cop shoots unarmed boy then holds him in his arms as he dies.

TTG4

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2014, 01:49:47 PM »
So I was sent this

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/02/hug-photographs-ferguson-protests-lie?CMP=fb_gu

I kind of agree with what he says, you can't jump on one image and assume the problem is solved, but equally I find it quite hard to believe anyone is actually doing that.

comrade_general

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2014, 01:55:45 PM »
Cop shoots unarmed boy then holds him in his arms as he dies.

TTG4

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2014, 03:48:51 PM »
Cop shoots unarmed boy then holds him in his arms as he dies.

I've been looking and can't seem to find anything saying this. Where did you find this?

joek

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2014, 09:52:16 PM »
Meanwhile, elsewhere...

Unlike in Ferguson, this looked like pretty much the perfect case, too: the officer was on video trying to restrain Garner in a way that he had been specifically trained not to do because it is dangerous; he was overweight, middle aged, and asthmatic; unarmed, and not a threat in any concievable way.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 11:19:09 AM by joek »

TTG4

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2014, 12:33:09 AM »
Unlike in Ferguson, this looked like pretty much the perfect case

Agreed, I don't understand how they managed to reach this decision

joek

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2014, 10:38:01 AM »
Agreed, I don't understand how they managed to reach this decision

Systemic racism looks like the most likely reason...

comrade_general

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2014, 12:41:29 PM »

TTG4

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2014, 05:59:03 PM »
Agreed, I don't understand how they managed to reach this decision

Systemic racism looks like the most likely reason...

Having said that, I've now heard analysis that says he was resisting arrest. Restraining someone who doesn't want to be restrained is damn hard, and supposedly the methods they used are approved methods. It was suggested that perhaps they should have paid more attention to his claims that he couldn't breathe. In all the situations being brought into the public eye there is some confrontation with police officers, perhaps the focus should be on why these conflicts happen?

The interview in question was with an ex-MET police officer from the UK, it was on tonights PM programme on radio 4 at around 45 minutes in. Don't know if international people can access that in any way, but if you can I recommend it.

joek

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2014, 10:12:39 AM »
Agreed, I don't understand how they managed to reach this decision

Systemic racism looks like the most likely reason...

Having said that, I've now heard analysis that says he was resisting arrest. Restraining someone who doesn't want to be restrained is damn hard, and supposedly the methods they used are approved methods. It was suggested that perhaps they should have paid more attention to his claims that he couldn't breathe. In all the situations being brought into the public eye there is some confrontation with police officers, perhaps the focus should be on why these conflicts happen?

The interview in question was with an ex-MET police officer from the UK, it was on tonights PM programme on radio 4 at around 45 minutes in. Don't know if international people can access that in any way, but if you can I recommend it.

Here is a source that claims that both the Medical examiner concluded that Garner's death was due to a chokehold, and that chokeholds are forbidden by NYPD as a restraining tactic.

Unless anyone can find any evidence that the method used was not a chokehold, I'm going to continue to act as if it was.

The footage here shows the police officer attacking the neck, which is ridiculously easy to portugal up and put pressure on the windpipe or arteries, even if you are not intending to, and shows Garner saying "I can't breathe" twice. Even if it came out in court that technically they hadn't done anything wrong, refusing to take it to court at all looks ridiculous.

CG: I don't normally watch Family Guy, but that's worryingly on point these days...
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 11:19:55 AM by joek »

joek

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Re: Ferguson, MO: Unrest Continues
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2014, 11:18:04 AM »
More positively...

So indictments of police officers are still possible...

comrade_general

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